This episode features a conversation between Phil Dillard, Founder of Thruline Networks, and Nate Miller, Innovation Systems Designer at The I Will Projects. In this episode, Nate talks about the faults that exist within our current food system, how he defines impact through aquaponics, and the significance of the black soldier fly as a solution to waste management.
This episode features a conversation between Phil Dillard, Founder of Thruline Networks, and Nate Miller, Innovation Systems Designer at The I Will Projects.
With an educational background in the culinary arts, knowledge of aquariums, indoor farming, and building aquaponics systems, Nate has turned his expertise and passion into a career. As a mentor providing student interns with direction for innovations of new growing systems, he is concerned about the future of our planet. He believes his work may be pivotal in shifting to a more sustainable paradigm both within his local community as well as on a global scale.
In this episode, Nate talks about the faults that exist within our current food system, how he defines impact through aquaponics, and the significance of the black soldier fly as a solution to waste management.
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Guest Quote
“The biggest thing that I noticed when I started teaching aquaponics is the lack of awareness for how food systems work. Don't tell me that tomatoes came from the grocery store. There's a lack of just general understanding of how the system works. But the system doesn't work well. The system, I mean, it works, it keeps everybody alive, but it's not really helping anything, right? It's doing more damage than it is helping. So to me, I like the fact that what we do here with aquaponics isn't so much about growing fish or growing food. It's about the in-between.” - Nate Miller
Episode Timestamps
(02:14) Nate’s current role
(03:40) Involvement in aquaponics
(05:40) Nate’s background
(16:45) Turning his passion into a career
(23:30) Defining impact through aquaponics
(28:30) The problem with our current food system
(35:55) Black soldier flies as a solution to waste management
(47:44) Quick hit questions
Links
Phil Dillard: Hello and welcome to Thruline to the 4th Sector, where we're exploring fourth sector capitalism and impact investing as an invitation to innovation and changing the world. This episode features a conversation between Phil Dillard, Founder of Thruline Networks, and Nate Miller, Innovation Systems Designer at The I Will Projects.
With an educational background in the culinary arts, knowledge of aquariums, indoor farming, and building aquaponics systems, Nate has turned his experience and passion into a career. As a mentor providing student interns with directions for innovations of new growing systems, he's concerned about the future of our planet and believes his work may be pivotal in shifting to a more sustainable paradigm both within his local community and at a global scale.
In this episode, Nate talks about the faults that exist within our current food system, how he defines impact through aquaponics, and the significance of the Black Soldier Fly as a solution to waste management. Now, please enjoy this interview between Phil Dillard and Nate Miller.
Phil Dillard: Hey everybody. Welcome again to another episode of Thruline to the 4th Sector. We're here today with the great Nate Miller. How are you doing today, Nate?
[00:01:20] Nate Miller: I'm doing fantastic. Glad to be here.
[00:01:22] Phil Dillard: Glad to have you. Thanks so much for making the time. Really excited to speak with you because we wanted to focus on this season of the podcast and talking a lot with people who are building the force sector and building the mission driven economy at a number of different levels.
We want as many people who are, you know, corporate leaders, as our nonprofit leaders, as our N G O and academic leaders, as well as our mission-driven entrepreneurs. Because, you know, we believe that in order to move from where we are to where we need to go, that it takes a whole host of different types of folks and that, um, we need to engage an.
Of mission driven entrepreneurs and activists and such, we're, we're moving in this right direction and we were really excited when we, when we met Nate, and wanted to have a little bit of more conversation to learn about you, your journey, you know, what changed you and why you're doing what you're doing, and then what's the impact that you see.
So, I mean, let's just start at the beginning. Nate. Can you tell us a little bit about you? I do a super softball question. When people ask you what do you do, how do you describe what you do? Yeah, that's,
[00:02:25] Nate Miller: uh, it's one of those things that like, people kind of, people kind of like what? Um, so what I do is I build aquaponic systems for educational purposes.
That's the main thing. We we're jumping into some new stuff now, which we, we will get into later, but, uh, really it's about. Teaching the youth primarily about ecosystems and our connection to those ecosystems, where our food comes from, how to grow your food, um, those kind of things. So using aquaponics, um, is a, like a fantastic method to get that point across.
Because it allows us to bring in so many different elements where traditional growing operations can't, you know, so we, we get to bring in physics and chemistry and biology and history, microbiology and all these different things because we're building an ecosystem versus building something that goes down.
So, you know, when you're building ecos, Systems. We're a part of this ecosystem and we need people to think about the fact that this is an ecosystem that we live in, and there's all kinds of little tiny players and big players and everything needs to work together. So getting that message across to the youth is really, uh, what we're, what we're all about.
And I
[00:03:32] Phil Dillard: definitely really want to get into the rationale behind that and the things you're learning by doing it. But, um, definitely first wanna just figure out how you got here. How did you first get involved in aquaponic?
[00:03:43] Nate Miller: My first step into aquaponics was, uh, back in 2008, I found out I have epilepsy. You know, it's something that I didn't realize that I had.
So, uh, being in Colorado, I had heard a lot about how CBD could help out that situation. So kind of went after it and dove down the rabbit hole a little bit and kind of found out about. You know that this will go down at the same point in time. I was also going to culinary school. I spent 22 years in the bar and restaurant industry and kind of wanted to go back to school, looked at all the situations that you go to school for.
None of it sounded fun to me. And then I saw the culinary program. I was like, you know, hey, like I'm already doing this. I'm already in the realm. Let's go here. The real link up to Aquaponics came through that when we started learning about the food system and how broken the food system. You know, I was like, wait a second, like we should try to fix this.
And then I kind of linked up with some of the stuff I've been playing around, you know, with growing, trying to produce my own CBD because, you know, I just couldn't afford to try it as a treatment method. So I figured, well, maybe I could figure out how to do this myself. And that's when I linked up that was like, oh, wait a second.
Like the food system is so broken and the food that we get at the grocery stores is not, And all this stuff. So I kind of rotated and stepped away from trying to grow that and stepped into trying to grow some food and using aquaponics to do that Seems like the best way to do it. I don't think there's any better way to do it because you're actually harvesting a, you know, a protein source from the fish themselves.
And then your vegetables, um, also coming from that. So you're getting like a full varied diet with this system. And, um, as far as I know, this is the only type of system that you actually get outputs from the system too. So you, you gain fertilizer. So it actually, it builds upon itself, uh, through time as
[00:05:23] Phil Dillard: well.
Yeah. And then if you do it right, you gain some, uh, fish pets, some fish buddies kicking around your, your home as well.
[00:05:29] Nate Miller: Yeah. Yeah. I got, oh, I got so many fish, fish buddies over here. I probably, I probably have around 600 fish in the house right now.
[00:05:36] Phil Dillard: So, you know, you speak about this in, in such, um, detail and with such comfort.
How did you, how did you get started? Can you tell us a little about, about your, your background that, you know, did you just learn all this or was it something that, you know, you had studied something in the, in the past that really helped you get to a point of this level of, of comfort and knowledge with this, these
[00:05:54] Nate Miller: systems.
No, actually, I, you know, people ask me that all the time, like, well, where'd you go to school for this? And I'm just like, I, I didn't, I've been a self-learner my whole life. I, I love learning things. It's part of the reason why I was drawn to the restaurant business scene bartending, um, example, because I've had this philosophy in my life that every soul that I interact with, um, has knowledge that I don't.
and being someone that likes to learn, I would like to get that knowledge. So the nice thing about that is if, if that's your viewpoint on life, then compassion comes really easy, right? So, because then I'm trying to interact with people cuz I would like to learn about them and, and they can teach me things, um, all the time.
So, you know, through the 22 years of bartending, I had thousands of experiences with thousands of different people from all kinds of walks of life. And, and I would. Little knowledge cuz I was that bartender. If you were sitting at the bar and I wasn't too busy, you were talking to me because I wasn't gonna let you just sit there and hang out, you know?
Um, so that's kind of where it started. And then I really like, since I like to learn, I really just started diving into this on my own, but I also had some fish knowledge from a kid. My mom was really into fish tanks growing up, so I learned a lot about, you know, the aquarium world and you know, how to keep all this stuff together.
And, and, and as I started making linkups I started realizing, You know, I just, I just fell in love with it. And what's cool about this is I'm actually getting paid to do this now. Not as much as I'd like, but you know, it's enough to keep me alive for now, and I hope things will change as, as we find new ways to, to get the word out and to fund this.
But, you know, every month, I get that paycheck and it's, wow, they're paying me to do this. I think that, you know, that's the key to life with everybody is find something you're passionate about and go after it. And for me it was a passion. So when I do thousands of hours of research and reading everything and pulling all the stuff that I can pull from everywhere that I can find it from, to me it's, it's, it's fun.
It's not a job.
[00:07:39] Phil Dillard: I think you had, um, a couple really good bits in there that I just, I made, made two clips while you were talking. Really appreciate 'em. Right. I think a lot of times we get disassociated from our passions, right? And we expect that we're supposed to do certain things, certain ways, and they're not necessarily the best path for us as individuals, or the path that works for me isn't the path that works for you or somebody else.
But I think it's, what's really interesting is I reflect on people who like hospitality because they like people, they like learning from people and connecting with people and that sort of thing. Then they transition at some point into something that really grabs 'em. That's completely. It gives me hope for those people who are concerned about what's gonna happen when there's all these, you know, robo bartenders and robo chefs and robo baristas and, or when you know it, you know, I live in San Francisco, the hospitality industry is under stress and there are a lot of people I know who are really sitting there going, well, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I mean, this is something that I love and like, you know, and a certain way to relate to. But there's a kernel of the passion. There's a kernel of the focus, right? Caring about where your food comes from. Caring about connecting with people, caring about like learning. And I love your quote about compassion, right?
How you can learn from other people, but there's so much in that and you're at the kernel of something interesting, right? I mean, one of our guests last year was a Stanford professor, PhD building all these villages, these eco villages where we're talking about all this sustainability and all this stuff, and it's big, high minded stuff.
To make a lot of it work, you need a guy like Nate who knows how to, you know, get in the weeds and make some of those things happen more than just idea wise, uh, put those things together. So, I mean, I feel like there's still space for all of us and to start exploring and learning and create and building.
And that's one of the things that really, really, really excites me about your story because I. And tell me about this. Would you confirm or deny this? Your background in hospitality gives you the ability to create a great experience, educational experience in your chosen passion
[00:09:41] Nate Miller: right now. Yeah, no, definitely, and I've always had this idea of those of us that can really make it well and do well in the hospitality industry.
We're sort of a strange breed of people that can't really, can't really make it in a regular job because there's no challenge in that, right? Because anybody that spent some time in there, this is a very challenging, very challenging situation. It. You know, we, we like that chaos. We, we call it being in the weeds, right?
We like that when we go in the weeds because you find that focus point. You just, you just have to go. But then at the same point in time, you have to play so many different roles. You know, as joked about is putting on a mask, right? Because when I go up to a table, I've gotta be able to read these people.
I've gotta be able to interact with these people on their levels. So, you know, I mean, I, you know, people used to joke with me cuz voice patterns change and the way you would talk change. You know, I've had people tell me that. Something that I was doing, uh, to make money. And I was like, no, I'm doing this to have interactions.
And I find that, you know, when you're treating people with respect and going after it in the industry, you make good money. People take care of us. And that's the nice thing is we live our lives. I lived my life, um, you know, for 22 years. I started, I started a business off of it. Um, went through all kinds of stuff, but that was all on the gratuity of others.
What I was really doing, bringing you a drink. Uh, it's not, you know, it's not that stuff, but you know when you're good at it and you give people an experience when they come in. So after I got done with the culinary school, I ended up dropping out, uh, my last semester to start a business. We had a, we had a clothing line we were running, and when I dropped out I was kind of sad because I didn't get those letters behind my name, you know?
But at the same point in time, I was also. Only doing it because I just kind of wanted to go to school and see what college was about. Cause I never had the opportunity to go to college because I had a family get started, uh, right at 18. So I, I did that, you know. But the cool thing was, is about three years after I graduated, the culinary school called me.
And wanted me to come be an instructor at the culinary school. So three years after I did without a degree, you know, I, I went back over there and spent four semesters teaching at the college, in the culinary school, and that's when I really found my passion for teaching, because getting that shift up and being able to, and then, especially.
I got the opportunity to go in and teach something that I was passionate about and that I really loved, and I could really teach people how to make money in this industry because people think that there's a trick to it or something. There's not. It's about being genuine and being yourself. And if you, if you're a person that doesn't really like people, then it's hard to make money.
Business, right? Because then you're putting on that mask of fake at the table. So when you come up to the table, and if you're not genuine, that guest might not know why they don't like you, right? They might not get it because everything coming outta your mouth was real happy and go lucky, but then behind it, it wasn't authentic.
So they pick up on that and then you're, you don't make the kind of money you need to make. I was used to give the example of that movie waiting. Um, you know, with that, with that girl, they would be in the back kicking stuff and cussing and getting all crazy and pop through, pop through the door and she's all happy.
Um, you know, and that's what a lot of people do in the industry. So when I took it over there and luckily I was teaching something that I really knew, and then the interactions I had was. Students and the way that I did things different with students that other teachers didn't do. Like, cuz I was, the, the classroom that I was running was a actual full service restaurant.
So Tuesday through Friday we had live guests in there for an hour and we would serve lunch. But on Mondays was our kind of planning day, getting the menus together. And I used to bring in loaves of bread and I would make everybody sit in a circle and we'd have discussions around that. I didn't like this classroom set up with everybody sitting over there.
We're we're a group here, we're, we're a team, we. You know, because that was the cool thing about the classroom was it was that, right? We were a team pulling this off at the same time. So it's really helped me transition over into the educational space of this because, you know, I go into a, a, a group of kindergartners and you know, the teachers will be standing up, lecturing over 'em, and I pull up and I sit down on the ground right with them.
I'm gonna get on their level, um, you know, and I can kind of talk to 'em a little bit different and, you know, make 'em feel comfortable. And I've found. You know, with other instructors that sometimes they'll, they'll do that and the kids are all quiet and they won't do that. But e every time that I get a group that I sit down in front of and I get down on their level, all of a sudden question, question, question.
And there's been times where, uh, you know, I had a, I had a 30 minute lesson I was supposed to be delivering, and I didn't deliver anything I wanted to do because we spent the entire 30 minutes answering questions of kindergartners. That's so powerful to be able to get them to be thinking and using their brains and asking questions.
I feel really blessed about being able to do this. And, you know, with our new stuff coming down, we're gonna be working with a, a group in Kenya. So, uh, later this year we're gonna be able to be teaching, uh, aquaponics, uh, to some groups in Kenya. So just the fact that, you know, going after this and kind of chasing a pattern and the way that I ended.
You know, getting this job was, was pretty wild too. But just, I would've never thought in my life that I'd be, you know, interacting with, uh, people. You know, I had the three hour, I've had three hours worth of conversations, uh, with people in Uganda and Kenya, and I would've never thought I would've had a chance to do that.
And then here I am talking to you, you know, like, It's wild the way things are, but I think the key with it as all is you just gotta find your passion and just kind of go after that. And don't worry about the details, don't worry about it. Like the universe will take care of you if you just keep following your path, if your path is correct, you know, because you never know what's gonna happen with it.
[00:15:04] Phil Dillard: Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, I know three or four different people in my ecosystem or in the mentorship circle who would wholeheartedly agree with what you just concluded with and how they would talk about, you know, some people think it's hokey when you say, talk about passion, and it's, it's, it's not. It's this awareness of self, this trying to understand who you are.
And some people get it earlier than others and some people never get it. And then some people are afraid or too inhibited or too burdened down by different things to go after it. But you know, things I thought about when I was hearing you talk. I've heard passion. I heard presence. I heard purpose. I heard practical applic.
Right. And I look for another people, but I couldn't find one authenticity. Right. And those things sticking together to me seem like they're, you know, telling Nate Miller's Miller story. Right. And they're things that I think about when I, when I see other people who are doing things similar, you know, I work with an award-winning teacher.
He taught his students entrepreneurship, he taught them science, and he had all these sort of awards and they went to do things with NASA and they went to do things with all these different, and people were flying across the country to come teach at our school, come help run this program. And he just wants to help youth become entrepreneurs in, in mission driven companies.
And then, Some of those same folks you're talking to who are in, you know, the, the places in in Africa that you talk, you talked about, we're talking to them about energy and microgrids and regenerative agriculture and, and all these different projects and programs, but the same thing that drives us. Is what allows us to, um, shake off some of the things that other would scare other people and to, to thrive in the, in the middle of the, in the middle of the challenges.
So I wanna try and like shift into our, into segment two, right? Like, you know, what did you see that changed you, right? I know you've talked about passion, you talked about following it and that sort of thing. Was there a point. That you clearly knew or you realized that you, you, you needed to do it, it sounds like flow when you describe it, right.
It sounds like you were in flow, but you were, you know, in a certain career for over 20 years and then, and then something shifted. What was it that, that, that shifted in, that drove you to kind of go in this
[00:17:15] Nate Miller: direction? So really, um, for me it was a combination of some really traumatic, uh, situations that came down in my life that really kind of made the shift on the other side of it.
Like the shift kind of happened. It was a random event through a science teacher at one of the local high schools that she wanted to do some aquaponics and I like. Said, I've been playing around with my basement for a long time, is just a, you know, just something I like to do. And my, uh, one of my best friends is the STEM instructor at the high school, and she bought this, got a little grant for this aquaponic system, and then got, and then took another job in Denver.
So here's this pile of stuff sitting and it got moved into this class. From, so he called me and asked me and I was like, yeah, let's build that. Let's build that. So for two years straight, I was begging him, let me build that, and finally his teacher came down. The principal came down and was like, you gotta do something with this.
So I went in there and helped him and we rebuilt the system. The design that they had was. Was kind of crap. So we kind of junked their design user stuff and built this program so that, that was like the external event that happened that, that led to this that I didn't realize was gonna be anything. But at the same point in time, I, uh, I pushed myself too hard, you know, trying to run a print shop and a clothing line, um, teaching at the college and still bars in full-time.
Um, I pushed myself to the brink and, uh, triggered my epilepsy. Turns out I've. But I didn't know. So I've had it since I was little and I had no idea that I had epilepsy. And it got bad after a string of concussions in high school through sports and other things. And uh, you know, so I didn't realize what I have with what was going down with seizures.
And then, um, they kind of progressed. So they went from two seizures in 2016 to. Almost 50 in 2017. So they kind of really turned on and like, I didn't have a choice. I kind of had to step out of the, the rest, uh, you know, step out of the business for a little while. I, I, I didn't really leave bartending, um, but I, you know, I quit teaching at the school.
I stepped out of the clothing line, so I was kind of, you know, just. On the outs outskirts of it, I would show up and help for sales events, but I wasn't on the day-to-day anymore. And then in October of 2017, um, I had what's called a cluster seizure and ended up, uh, ended up passing away. So I spent a couple minutes there and spent 36 hours in a coma on a ventilator and got the opportunity to come back.
So I didn't really know what I was gonna do. Like I, I got out of that situation and, you know, they, they turned the, uh, turned the water off to my. And yeah, because when you're living in as a bartender, everything's cash. So, you know, having retirement plans and 401ks and all that kind of stuff, it doesn't really come for us.
And we live comfortable lives, but you know, it's very hard to be able to stack something. So I got out of that and realized, like I just left and had the opportunity came back. But if I wouldn't, had the opportunity came back, I just left my family with nothing. So I knew that some, you know, I didn't really have an idea of what I was gonna do.
And then, Three weeks after this all happened, I got a phone call from my friend that I built, the one at the high school, and he's like, Hey, I've got a meeting, uh, with this nonprofit. They found out about Doc Proponic Systems and they want to talk. He's like, I don't know anything about these systems.
You've gotta come with me, bro. . So I went with them to the meeting and we had a conversation about what the, I Will projects was, uh, what their mission was and what they, what they were going after. They had already been kind of going down the path, but they didn't have anyone that really knew how to do aquaponics.
So they were working with the college, trying to get some engineering students to build it. But you know, engineering students don't like to do research or whatever, because I mean, they built a cool system, but it was never gonna work because they were missing the parts that make it work. So after the conversation with them, she pulled me aside and she's like, Hey, what's it gonna take to get you?
I threw out a number and she instantly said yes, and that was the situation that really shifted it. So I kept doing the bartending on this for a little while. Uh, and then 2018, I went like eight months after, you know, after that event, I went up to Denver and got some, got some better help from up there, and, uh, went like eight months without a.
Seizure. And then in October of 2018, I had two more, two Saturdays in a row and I was down to working only Saturdays at the Bar . So I had two mos. So that, that was it for me. And I realized, you know, so they ended up diagnosed me with PTSD from 22 years of bartending because people don't realize the kind of stress that we're under in there.
It's, it's in the top five most stressful jobs on the. Finding that out. And then, you know, as soon as I decided that I was gonna leave Ms. Alice Hill, the founder, she said, well, what's it gonna take to replace that money? That's
[00:21:45] Phil Dillard: a great question to hear, right? What's it take to get you on board? Right? That means somebody, somebody really wants you and sees the value in what you're doing, and then you've made a, you've made a heck of a transition.
The thing you said about emergencies is really interesting. Serendipity coming into play, right? I talked about this today. Well known, uh, real estate developer. And, um, this morning with, uh, an ER doc who said basically it's the equivalent, the same thing that emergencies teach us. They teach us, um, how to respond.
They remind us of possibility. The doc said, you know, the emergency room reminds me of the possibility of what medicine can be, right? Because I don't ask you about who you are, where are you from? I treat you. I deal with all the crazy things that come in. We are dealing with the worst of the challenges of.
Of, of people in their medical conditions in society, and all we do is try and help people to get better, and it's the best that we could be. It's why I, why I did medicine, and it really, you know, it really, it really, really touched me. Right. And then my developer friend was talking about where the messages come from in these emergencies.
Right. How do they come from in your, in your spirit or if you believe about coming through your ancestors or, or which, right. What sort of message are you getting? The universe told you you needed to do something. And that you had pushed your body or spirit to limit and there was some sort of dissonance and that you had to respond.
It forced you, you know, your body, your body, the universe, whoever you, you call it, you know, God, um, Yahweh forced you to make a decision right, on how you were gonna change and respond. And it's catapulted you into something that really like. Seems to make you, um, not only exciting and thrive, but tackling something that is massively important for the planet.
And I think that's really, really exciting. I just wanted to, wanted to call that out. I'm curious, given the way you see your work right now, what do you define as impact? What have you really, really learned? Where do you feel like this work changes or influences the people you serve? . Well,
[00:23:43] Nate Miller: the fact that we're concentrating on the youth, you know, I think the biggest thing that I noticed when I started doing this is the lack of, uh, awareness of how these systems work and how, how, where they, you know what I mean?
Tell me The tomatoes came from the grocery store, you know, so there's, there's a lack of. Of just understanding of how the system works, but the system doesn't work well, the system, I mean, it works, it keeps everybody alive, but it's not really helping anything. Right? It's doing more damage than it's helping.
So to me, I like the fact that what we do here with aquaponics isn't so much about growing fish or growing food. It's about. The in between. So I, I call 'em my microbe farms. So it's these unseen microbes that interact with us in the entire planet every single day that do this magical work of, you know, the nitrification cycle, right?
So it takes a waste product and converts it into a useful product or something else. And it happens inside of our bodies. It happens, uh, in the compost pile. It happens in the dirt, it happens in the water, it happens everywhere. And most people, Are unaware of how much effect that this micro realm has on us every day.
I mean, we're, each one of us humans are walking around with a pretty significant, uh, portion of your body weight is non-human cells. Um, your entire digestive tract works off of these microbes. Yeah. These microbes are not like, you don't re, I mean, we're kind of like a donut, right. Yeah, nothing you eat really goes inside of you.
It's just in this tube and the microbes in that tube. But really what's making it all happen and those microbes are the same microbes doing it for the soil, the same microbe, some of the same, you know what I mean? So we have all these systems and be able to, so once you start having the awareness of these systems, you realize how beautiful the cycles and the way that this all comes together in the interactions between resources and.
And waste is resources and should be looked at that way, you know, and, and unfortunately we as humans have kind of got to the point where we, we don't think about that stuff and we're not really taught that in the schools. We're not taught awareness of ourselves in schools. We're not taught the connection that we have to the universe, uh, to these cycles, you know?
And uh, so to me that's the biggest thing. Going in there and teaching. And then I also build my aquaponic systems, especially for the school. A little different. Go ahead.
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Yeah, you know what I really like? Cuz you put a really, um, realistic and visceral, uh, touch on that hole where we've lost, where lots of our society lost touch with natural cycles. Right? And it seems, you know, very organic to you. Like a lot of people talk about being out of touch with the natural world.
But if you talk about kids, and I'm very curious, like which types of kids you see who don't know where food comes from. The more of how it matters is, is pretty, pretty obvious to you because you're like, well, you're part of the system, but you forget that you're part of it. You think of waste as as waste, but nature doesn't have waste.
Right? Nature uses and reuses and and converts everything, and it's a much more practical description of that disconnect than I've heard people describe and I really appreciate that. And the thing I'm curious about is when you. , you know, the system is broken and it might be hurting more than helping. I'm curious if you could dig in a little bit there and also tell us a little bit about the different types of groups that you're seeing in the, in the communities you're serving domestically.
Before we, you know, go back to talking about Africa,
[00:28:14] Nate Miller: we got real lucky. We, uh, we worked with NASA in 2021. We received a, a grant that NASA put out, um, is to help during covid to try to get some STEM education. To rural areas and stuff. So, you know, the town that I live in is mostly on the lower end of things.
So we have a lot of challenge students, a lot of schools that are in that zone of being challenging and stuff. So, uh, the NASA grant, uh, was through the Boys and Girls Club, so we teamed up with the Boys and Girls Club. So we ended up teaching 155 students through Southern Colorado, through the Boys and Girls Club.
And, um, that was the, that was where we wanted to go with it. Right. The beauty of these aquaponic systems is, um, they can build it, they can be built at any level, so you can build a little tiny one. So each one of those 155 students got this many aquaponic systems. We taught 'em how to grow peace sprouts.
We got it in their hands. We got an ecosystem in their hands they were able to care for and take care of them. We were right there with them helping 'em out every day. You know, it, it was great that we were able to do that because that really, um, allowed us to get to this, this generation of kids and some of.
Students, like their parents, you know, their parents are in a bad spot. They, you know, and some of it's just generational that they've got, and, but with these systems, we can scale 'em up to huge, giant warehouse size or we can do 'em this size, right? So we could teach you how to build one in your backyard where you could actually do this for yourself and do it.
So, so to the
[00:29:41] Phil Dillard: skeptic. How would you share with them the difference between your system and the existing food system? Now, now I have some ideas on that, but I'm, I'm curious about how, how you see it, what's broken in the existing food system That by putting this in my backyard or putting a warehouse size one in my neighborhood or in my city block, what could that do?
How could that improve the system or the, the health of the community? So
[00:30:05] Nate Miller: it would break the system really. I mean, which is kind of good, right? But when you said the health of the community, I think that's really where it's at, right? Because our food system, the way it is right now, anybody out there that has ever grown a garden and went and picked a super ripe tomato off of their plant and taking it back inside and cut that thing up, that is a tomato.
And now compare that with what you buy at the grocery store, right? Those aren't really tomatoes, but if you look at how the system has to work in order to get those tomatoes into our hands and on the shelf, they have to be able to hang out for a while because if you take that right tomato off your plant and you put it on your counter, Um, you might have 72 hours before it crumbles and falls apart.
So the problem is, is we're harvesting all this stuff from long distances from where we live. In some cases it's coming from other countries, right? We gotta look, we get, um, in the wintertime, some of our stuff comes up from South America. So in order to get it, to make that kind of transfer, they can't wait till it's right.
So they pick this stuff un ripe when the plant is not ready for you to eat those seeds. And then they have to ship it up here and then they put it in chambers and, uh, gas it with that, you know, ethylene gas. And, and it tricks the, it tricks the outside of it and it turns red and it looks like it's ripe, but it's not.
And the key, there's no nutrition in that, right? It's just like empty, empty calories. At that point in time, you're not getting those phytonutrients and those, those minerals and stuff that, that plant would really have because you're not eating life. Right. So we're supposed to be eating life and things that are alive and thriving.
And that's the thing with these kind of systems is you can actually get that or a portion of that. It's not like, you know, it's not like you'd be able to throw a, you know, most people don't ever have time to, you know, throw a garden down. They could supply all your stuff. I mean, cuz it's a tremendous amount of work and I, I give a lot.
Uh, thanks and gratitude towards the farmers out there that spend their lives trying to do this for us. And, you know, and the, and the bad thing is it's not the farmers that are the broken part of the system. Most farmers can't even afford to go buy with what they sell for. They can't go buy their, their tomato back, you know?
Huh. And it's. So I, I really think that that's the problem with the system, that this could help, this could bring it back to the local situation where people are harvesting and helping each other out and working together to create our food. We've got so much crazy amount of land in this country that is, you know, just planted with a monochro grass.
It's not helping anything. It's. Sp, you know, so getting back and getting diversity back into your life and bringing those insects back, and all of the other stuff that comes along with, you know, with these systems where it's different from other grow methods is this is an ecosystem. This is not just, uh, some dirt in a pot or a hydroponic system where I'm, I'm dosing, you know, uh, manmade or, or mind minerals and stuff into the water, right?
This is a full ecosystem where every player has a role and every player has to have per. That allow it to thrive. And then when, when that happens, everything around it thrives and you'll see stuff come up. Like, I find weird things in my systems. I find weird types of algae and bugs and stuff, and it's in my basement.
Like, where did you come from? How did you possibly get here? But they, but they find their way in and they show up. So I think that when we, when we go out there and we achieve to create. In a way that it's thriving and, uh, there then other life shows up because that's what nature does. It pulls this together.
You know, there's that old, there's that old native saying, if something, something is not eating your garden, your garden is not part of the ecosystem. And, and with these being their own little mini ecosystems, it's really great to do it that way, you know? And. A lot of people walking around have this, uh, they forget that you're not seeing things as they are.
We see things as we are.
[00:33:47] Phil Dillard: I think you get to something that's really, really cool there, because that clip, right, if something's not eating your garden, your garden's not part of the ecosystem. It speaks to another point that we've, we've talked about a lot in our, in our groups. Um, you know, invasive species or being part of the natural, the natural ecosystem.
There's some things that grow in some parts of the world that don't grow in in others. Right. I grew up in the Philadelphia area and South Jersey is a place where there's, uh, sandy dirt. Turns out sandy dirt grows tomatoes really, really
[00:34:18] Nate Miller: well.
[00:34:18] Phil Dillard: I remember going around the country and around the world and being like, why are these tomatoes suck so bad?
Because they didn't grow as well as they do in that, in that part of the world. And um, it's really interesting, interesting point about how. Organisms find a way to get into your system, but some organism organisms belong in your system and some don't. If we're gonna break the, if we're gonna, well, I, I'm gonna quote buck Mr.
Fuller, right? He says, who says, you know, the best way to fix a broker system to replace, just build something that works better. Right. And if we're trying to do healthier, if we're trying to do food as medicine, if we're trying to do things that are great for our local ecosystems and our local communities, then we need to build a, a, a better system.
And I feel like you're on the way there and, um, that's pretty, pretty exciting. So I'm curious. Given where you are right now, what's next impact through education inspires kids in a certain way? Where do you go from here? Well,
[00:35:13] Nate Miller: so our translation, um, I'm actually super excited because this is another one of the, the things that, you know, when you put stuff out there to the universe, if you're not, uh, worried about it and thinking about every day, sometimes, Sometimes it plays back for you.
So about five years ago, I've been really interested in the idea with these aquaponic systems of how to close the loops, right? How can I close that fish food loop? Because that's, that's an external input that I have to come up with. So how can I, how can I close that without having to purchase fish food?
And if you look at the fish food, this is broken as the rest of the food. Corn, wheat and soy. All gmo, all GMO corn, wheat, and soy. I don't know too many fish on the planet in their nature that are eating corn, wheat, or soy. Right? So, but that's what they're feeding them because, you know, we're biological beans and we need, we need protein, fat, carbohydrates, and minerals.
Right? That's, it's the same across the board. So I really started looking into how could I close the loop in my own system. I'm producing with the system a huge portion of what I. to feed the fish, right? But I'm missing this protein source. So my first thought was, you know, earthworms, right? Red wigglers.
But after doing some research on them, they give really good growth spurts of protein till up until about 15% of the protein requirement. And after that, for some reason, the earthworms actually have a detrimental effect. So if you vet 'em nothing but earthworms as their protein, It has a backwards effect.
So I realized, well, that's not gonna work. So then I did some research and I found out about the black soldier fly. And the black soldier fly is, it's just mind blowing that this thing exists on the planet and the capabilities of it. So I kind of looked into that and I pitched it to the non-profit. I was like, Hey, can I, can I try to raise these black soldier flies in in the lab and they just heard black soldier fly and.
Nope. Absolutely not. Didn't want nothing to do with it, so I kind of put it on the back burner. And what's unique about the black soldier fly? So the Black soldier fly is, um, the most efficient protein manufacturer on the planet by leaps and bounds these things. Reproduce at a crazy high rate. They can eat one and a half to four times their body weight every single day, and they eat what we eat.
So like the red wigglers are, they're eating just bacteria so they can process celluloses and all this other stuff. But these things eat what we eat. So they eat, you know, they fat. Protein, you know, they can eat carcasses. So that's what they do in the wild. They're part of the decomposition team, right? So in the wild, they're taking care of these big carcasses and stuff like that.
Um, but their life cycle's real short. So because the life cycle's short and they need to get, you know, rotated back into this carcass before it goes away, they really reproduce fast. They have all these little benefits of like leaving, uh, when it comes through. But because they can eat so fast and they can eat everything that we.
I can solve, like I was just going after the protein source. But then, um, when the executive director went over to a, to Kenya, uh, to meet up with them, we had got a connection with, um, a gentleman who was working on the Great Lakes here, did a lot of good research with that, and then they brought him over to like Victoria to help out with some of the stuff that he pulled off here.
And the founder had some connections with him. So we, we called him, asked him, Hey, this is what we're doing. He's like, well, why don't you come over? We're. Conference, this educational conference in Kenya. So she went over there in Kenya and met up with a farmer named Fred Juma. And Fred Juma is a tilapia farmer that does cage farming in, uh, lake Victoria.
So, and then he also raises chickens and pigs on his property. And then he was like, oh, but this is, this is how I deal with my waste. So he brings her in and what he's really doing is farming black soldier flies. So these black soldier flies can take care of, uh, organic waste. , like, it's unbelievable how fast that they can eat.
So, um, he's feeding all of the tilapia waste, um, the extra carcasses, all of that stuff to it. Uh, the, uh, chicken waste, the pig waste all goes back to the black soldier flies. And the difference between black soldier flies and say, uh, like an earthworm is they actually get like about an 80 to 90% reduction in.
It's directly converted to biomass of the insect, so it actually removes it. Where, you know, with, with anybody that's ever raised earthworms, like it just converts. It doesn't, nothing goes away. You still have the same volume at the end, but these get a huge reduction and. The protein source, uh, they're like 47% protein, uh, 32% fat, the highest calcium ratio of any insect on the planet.
Uh, perfect. Uh, if you raise reptiles, these are the perfect reptile food, uh, because they have the perfect calcium de phosphorus ratio. Anybody that raises reptiles always has to be, uh, you know, supplementing calcium because all the rest of the bugs they feed them don't have enough calcium and these things fit all of these things.
So this is, that was around. I was just looking for insect food and it turns out it's amazing people food too. Um, like we could eat them just as fine. I'm not saying that we should, that we're in a situation that we need to go to that route, but. As she came back and we, we've been trying to find different ways that we can find funding and find some way that we can get in to be sustainable.
Right? Because with the nonprofit, you're always kind of bouncing from grant to grants. We, we get this big grant and then we're going after it, and then the grant ends and now we're outta money. And we're like, what do we do now? So, you know, you have this cycle where we've always been trying to get something that could be sustainable for us and, and a source of cream that can pay.
The normal expenses and then we can use grants to expand the programs. And we've always been lacking that. So when she came back to that, we started brainstorming and I started realizing like, wait a second, I can change the world with these bugs. So now we're gonna transition now the whole food side and the, the stuff is, That's the side product.
And that might be the, that might be the income stream, uh, depending, comes out. But really with these things, the amount of waste that they can produce is unbelievable. So we could take these farms and build these farms and we could really put a huge dent into the waste, the organic waste, uh, problem that we have.
So if I'm hearing.
[00:41:23] Phil Dillard: You take the food, human food waste, right? Set that off to the side, right? Sick. Black flies on it, right? Black soldier flies on it. They eat
[00:41:32] Nate Miller: it, they get, they
get
[00:41:33] Phil Dillard: fat, they get strong on it, and you, you take them and you turn them into fish food, and you feed the fish. And the fish start eating, um, doing the things that it's secreting in the water that's gonna feed the plants and the plants become people food and the cycle repeats, right?
You build that into a nice little circular, circular cycle and even if you're just using it to generate the food for e for us to eat healthy, healthy local fish and plants that are fresh off the vine, you can do these in different types of controlled environments. So you can have healthy plants that, that replicate that, whether it's on the small scale in the backyard or like a medium sale in the, in the community.
or at some sort of larger scale where you're actually trying to do it in a warehouse so you can have all sorts of local food that's super fresh, even if it's kind of out of season, vision oriented wise. Right.
[00:42:20] Nate Miller: So yeah, that was the idea that I started with. Right. That was the idea. It's like these things can close the loop.
That was the initial goal is because you're totally right. We can, we can. That's the key. They can close that loop, right? And then if, if the system, the stuff coming out of the system goes back to the, to the grubs and then the grubs go back to the fish, then you re and then you have full control over your whole thing.
And that was where I wanted to go. And that, I mean, I'm still going there, right? That's still gonna be part of the package. But now these things we've found out, they're so good at what they do. Then now we're going after industrial. We're gonna try to be able to solve huge scale waste. . We have a processing plant here that does vegetables for the local grocery store, and they like all the stuff that's sliced up and pre-packaged.
We found out that they have a 30 yard dumpster of, uh, vegetable waste that goes to the landfill every week. And it's crazy. You're gonna
[00:43:11] Phil Dillard: divert that from landfill waste. There's a number of things that, that can be done with it. It could be compost, it could, but it could e very easily be, uh, feed for soldier flies to, to feed this, feed this cycle.
And then, you know, then our perception around food. Is, I mean, there's multiple things we need to do cause we know that food waste is bad if an environment, I mean, the first is actually to manage our distribution system better. Then the second is to kind of manage our, uh, our consumption better. So as humans, we don't throw out 'em as much stuff that it took us so much energy to grow, but when there is stuff that's left over, we don't waste it into landfill.
And then, you know, methane into the environment, we put it into a system that allows for it to circle, circle back. And I think that that. is important, as well as the transition that you're making from being grant dependent, charitable, nonprofit dependent to building a sustainable regenerative for-profit business that can scale itself and it can grow.
Now you can turn your students into, into employees, into evangelists, into, into people who are changing the food system at whatever scale they choose to en engage, and that that seems like an incredible opportu.
[00:44:22] Nate Miller: And now with the, the ability to have the B Corps, we're gonna go in that round, right? So we can still have a mission, we can still go after what we want to go after it, but now we're at least able to generate some of our own incomes.
We don't have to be reliant on that. And then to me, where, where it changes the paradigm for us is to be able to do this and solve that. How much better could we be if I didn't have to walk into a school and say, Hey, I wanna build you this big, beautiful system. But, uh, you know, it. Costs you some funding.
[00:44:52] Phil Dillard: Instead, you can tell them, not only am I gonna teach your kids about where food comes from, but I'm gonna change the way that you feed the students themselves so that you're gonna have more nutritious food inside your school and it's gonna pay for itself. Cuz food is big money and big food is big money and big ag is big money.
And you know what? Healthcare is big money too, but. Through food and awareness in, in science, through experience and practical education and integrating that into your community, that's priceless. Education, experience, health of the mind, body, spirit. I see you coming together
[00:45:25] Nate Miller: for you. It's been amazing. And you know, as, as we go down this other path, you know, I.
It's strange to me that these aquaponic systems that have been fascinated has led us to a route that we can, this could have global impact, right? Like if we can teach people how to do this and figure it out, and they, they're doing it all over the world. It's not like we're the first ones. There's a, there's a company in Norway that spent $55 million on one of these systems and that entire city, all, all organic matter from that entire going through this.
And what they're doing with it is they're actually taking the. Because the flies themselves are just, uh, just reproductive cycles. So only a certain percentage of them come back in because when the flies emerge, they don't even have a mouth. They can't even eat. They only live, you know, like 10 days is all they live.
So they're basically just reproduction cycle. But what they're doing over there is they're actually taking the GRS and processing them and grinding them, and. Separating the fat from the protein and then selling that back to, uh, the big pet markets. So now some of these pet pet foods that they've got over there are no longer using corn, wheat, and soy as their protein slash They're now using soldier flies as they're.
Protein and fat source. So, and then by separate 'em like that, and then I'm sure that's where the big money, why it costs so much money is that that processing can't be easy. I'm not even sure what the process of doing it is, but then they can sell crude protein and crude lipids to their, so now they can take those and mix different feeds for different animals.
So you could, you know, there's studies on, uh, feeding them to cows in order to, um, supplement some of the protein. Cuz the grasses aren't doing what they're doing and we're feeding them old hay and that kind of stuff. Um, you know, but the chickens, the pigs, everything needs protein to a certain extent. So these kind of can fill that gap.
And then the fact that we can really tackle and solve the food, you know, those little smart cars. So in the square footage of a smart car you can produce. Um, one ton of soldier fly larva in a year, and that one ton can we eat between one in four tons of food waste in that same amount of time, right? So when you start talking about, uh, these things are ferocious and.
We could really do the damage. And I think what I'm hoping as, as we get, I'm only like a week in two weeks into this path of actually having 'em, but just watching what mine have done that I have here, I only have 500 of them. So that's like one flies worth of babies. They smash three pounds of food and 36 hours, they smash two pounds of food.
I've been weighing the food out as I feed them. They did, uh, two pounds of food in 20, in 26. Like totally gone. Um, you know, it's, there's nothing left over. It's, yeah, it's, um, it's wild. I have a newfound
[00:48:04] Phil Dillard: respect
[00:48:05] Nate Miller: for the fly. Well, and then where, and the funny thing is, is like they were just around, so where you grew up, they were there, like they, they were rowing.
You could have put a, been out there and got 'em. But that's the thing, they're, you just don't realize the power when they're around you. I mean, and they're not so much of a pest, but they show. , it
[00:48:22] Phil Dillard: speaks to the, to the importance of science and biodiversity, though, like understanding what sort of critters are running around in the ecosystem, what their jobs are and how they keep it in, in stasis so that you, we have the beautiful ecosystems that we wanna see and then, How we can actually restore them if we kind of knock them outta nature.
That's out of balance. That to me, that to me seems to be a big, big lesson from, from there. Now I'm sure we could go on for, for a lot of time, but I gotta be respectful of your time and so I just wanna ask a couple quick hit questions that we try and hit. And you actually already answered one of them, cuz I was gonna ask, outside of your company, can you tell a project, campaign or program that inspires you?
And you mentioned this, the city in Europe, what was that, that city or that program you were talking.
[00:49:09] Nate Miller: Um, it's in Norway. I cannot remember the, the city, but yeah, that was, I read about another one in Canada trying a new thing, but Canada had some regulations that they're dealing with where they're not allowed to take post-consumer waste.
They only, they can only take pre-consumer waste, which is fine. It solves the problem. But like to be able to do both and you know, we actually have a, I don't know what kind of regulations we're gonna come up against here, but if we do come up against regulations, guess what that starts for us then it's another fight to get some regulations changed.
This could solve problems. So we figure it out, right?
[00:49:41] Phil Dillard: We figure it out and we'll have to do a little background research and figure out the name of that city and, and we'll probably put it in the show notes. Um, but there's, there's two other quick questions. We've got. The one is, what are the most important thing that you think that individuals can do to lead to a better future for this industry?
[00:49:58] Nate Miller: Figure out what it is for you, step into your own world. I think, you know, I, I kind of, I love that philosophy of, uh, we can change the world by changing it ourselves, but more importantly, the world through ourselves, right? Because you can't go out there and help people and change the world and do the things that make you happy and stuff unless you're solid, right?
We each individually are the witness of this. So you gotta take care of yourself. You gotta make sure that you're getting some rest and eating properly and doing all the things you gotta do, because that's what's gonna allow you. And the more that you do that, and the more that you live with compassion, the more that other people recognize that.
and that's kind of how it all spirals out from yourself. I think that's it about, you know, sitting down and really taking a hard look at yourself. Get still for a couple minutes and you know, take a hard look and figure out what it is for you that wanna do, because we're all, each one of us are different.
Each one of us are unique. Each one of us are that slice of that slice of everything, right? It's. So, um, just find out what your role's gonna be here, because everything has a role. Every, every living being on this planet, like, has a role, ha has a spot, has something that they, they want to do or they're designed to do, right?
So I think that that's the biggest thing is going out there and with these systems, uh, being able to show people that. , it is bigger than just one player, right? It's not just one player. It's the whole thing together. And I think that if we could, each of us could sit down with ourselves for a couple seconds and uh, really realize like how much of a part of the system we are.
We're not separate from it. We are the product of it and the stewards of it, we're the ones that have the ability to take a fly. You know, like with the black soldier flies, we can. Thing that is designed to do this very specialized thing in nature, and then we can use that to do something bigger that we're not changing it, we're not making it do something different.
We're not telling it when and why and how, like we try to do when we're farming a lot of times. Um, but we can just let it do its thing. And then make it bigger because, you know, and they can really change the world by just like helping little things do what they do.
[00:52:04] Phil Dillard: Yeah. We use millions of years of evolution to, to help it, uh, do what it does.
Just at a, at a scale that's a little more advantageous to, to our, to our problem. Last question, what's the most important thing that governments or NGOs can do to lead to a better future in this industry?
[00:52:21] Nate Miller: Maybe, I guess it comes back to the same thing, right? Focus on the individuals, like look at the stories and go meet the people and get, get, get down here and get, like, get on the ground with those kindergartners, right?
Sit down at their level. And I think too many people, and especially governments, right, they try to get this overarching thing that works for everyone. And I, I get it. You kind of have to think about that, but. , it's really the individuals that make the whole, right? So when you can focus on individuals and go in, because, you know, I can't, I can't change the world.
I can only change the couple people that I get a chance to interact with. But if I can, if I can, it just ripples out after that, right? So I take what I do, I call it plant and seeds. So I plant the seeds of the possibilities in the people that I interact with, and then it's up to them to water it. Like I, it doesn't, like I can't do that for you.
That seed was planted. So maybe, you know, and you never know what your route is, maybe it gets watered later on by, um, some crazy situation that happens to you that spills some water on it and it sprouts. You know, you never, you never know. So I think that when you're, and especially with NGOs and nonprofits, right?
Um, , go in and talk to those people. Go in and deal with the people that are right there. If you're trying to solve an issue, don't try to solve the housing, cri housing crisis by buying land and developing new things and saying, oh, like here, we got this new housing development. Right? How about go down there on the streets and have a conversation with some of these, these people down there and you know, show 'em some love, you know, in the sense that you like, yeah, you could bring them some money or whatever.
You know, like, just show 'em some compassion and ask 'em what their story is. Because, you know, it's kind of that idea that the sweetest sound, uh, the sweetest sound ever, ever, ever uttered was the sound of your own name, right? Like, people wanna tell you about themselves and you get
[00:54:10] Phil Dillard: to meet people and learn from people and learn from their experience as opposed to telling yourself you believe, you know, things that you actually don't really know, which is.
Pretty awesome and, and a great way to kind of, um, to kind of wrap, wrap ourselves up. Um, I just wanna thank you for, for making the time and sharing your, your energy and your story and, um, you know, really glad to hear where you're going and looking forward to, to seeing, you know, seeing how you, how you move forward, um, a along the way.
Hopefully we can do this again this time next year and, and showcase some, uh, amazing progress you guys. .
[00:54:45] Nate Miller: Yeah, definitely. And you know, and if anybody's willing to help out there, you know, feel free to pop on the Iowa projects, do.com and you know, maybe, you know, shoot us some lines, shoot us some love, and we'll see where it's going.
You know, we're, we're out here to try to, to change, to change some things and shift some paradigms and, you know, get people to realize, I mean, we're. We have the power to change this. It's super simple, right? We just gotta, we just gotta go for it. And I think it comes with education. It's super, and it's a
[00:55:12] Phil Dillard: super message.
And we'll definitely share in the show notes and we'll definitely connect, you know, offline for some, some more ways to see how we can, uh, to help you thrive. So thanks
[00:55:21] Nate Miller: again Nate, and thank you so much for the opportunity to do this. It was super fun.
[00:55:25] Phil Dillard: Thanks for coming and thanks and everyone for joining on another episode of Thruline to the 4th Sector.We'll see you around next time.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Thruline to the 4th Sector. I'm your host, Phil Dillard. If you enjoyed the show, please leave a rating and tell a friend. To learn more about the fourth sector economy, visit thrulinenetworks.com. That's T H R U L I N E networks.com. Thanks again and we hope to have you with us in the next episode.